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  • Lager, lager, lager

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    November 26th, 2009FletchtheMonkeyComment
    Lager, lager, lager
    This week has seen a host of articles on lager, CAMRA and the divisions in the beer industry (see articles by Barm, Mark Dredge, Woolpack Dave, Pete Brown and more).
    Seems that some of it is negative (which I say meaning not positive about the whole thing rather than derogatory), much of it is complicated and much of it has sparked
    very good debate amongst the beer community.
    It’s fitting that the lager debate surfaced on the week we unearthed a parody of our sites, real-lager-reviews.com, and actually the Guardian article was one of the ways we cottoned on
    to our spoofers.
    Then Sam couldn’t quite work out if William’s Brothers Grozet which was depectively lager like for a beer.
    It seems the question of lager brings up awkward arguments. CAMRA clearly don’t associate themselves with CO2, which rules out a lot of lagers, but it doesn’t fundamentally rule out lager.
    Various other methods of serving lager can be found (what the hell is lager when it’s a home!) The debate reminds me of the ‘What’s an IPA anymore’ discussion that many of
    us bloggers commented on a few months back.
    So, my two cents.
    CAMRA support real ale. Check. They (to the best of my knowledge) have no vendetta against lager or any other drink. However, some die hard CAMRA supporters probably do
    (and they are entitled to their opinions). So for CAMRA to rule out serving a lager because it uses CO”, sounds on the face of it fair enough.
    Look, people like different things, that’s live. There is nothing wrong with ‘real ale’ festivals. But personally, I’d prefer to see ‘Beer, ale, whatever festivals’, the empahsis being
    on quality, responsible drinkaing and socialising. Forget arguments, linear divisions, style. I want to see festivals that provide an outlet for beer berwers, a get together for beer lovers
    and a genuine effort to make sure beer has a good name.
    Lager, beer, ale, stout, porter, IPA, pale ale: all allowed.
    Cask, keg, bottled, straight out of a fermenting tank: allowed.
    Tankard, pint glass, 1/3 pint, 1/2 pint, wine glass: allowed.
    Me, I like beer, and as I repeat from my comment ealrier this week, as Adrian Tierney Jones puts it, “Beer, ale , whatever” (apologies if I take your usage out of context Adrian).
    I will add to this discussion later this week, in a post close to my heart.
    Serving beer (Wikipedia)

    Serving beer (Wikipedia)

    Last week saw a host of articles on lager, CAMRA and why the two don’t always have a harmonious relationship (see articles by Barm, Mark Dredge, Woolpack Dave, Tandleman & The Guardian).

    The same week r’ Sam couldn’t quite work out if William’s Brothers Grozet was a lager or a beer, with conflicting online reviews and it being deceptively lager like for an ale.

    It’s fitting that the lager debate and lots of lager chat surfaced on the week we unearthed a parody of our sites, real-lager-reviews.com, and actually the Guardian article that kicked much of this off was one of the ways we cottoned onto our spoofers (thanks to an innocuous comment on there by the Real Lager Reviews lads).

    It seems the question of lager brings up some awkward discussions. CAMRA clearly don’t associate themselves with CO2, which rules out a lot of lagers, but it doesn’t fundamentally rule out lager per se.

    Which leads us to what is a lager: what it is and why is it different?

    Our friends at Real Lager Reviews

    Our friends at Real Lager Reviews

    Are we simply talking about the ubiquitous brands than come in cans? Or are we including Pilsners, darker Czech beers and traditional 19th century ‘lagered’ ales?

    There are differences in ingredients, fermentation and delivery of beer to glass clearly, and some of these result in different reactions from those in beer circles.

    Various other methods of serving lager can be found, as opposed to blasting CO2 into your pint (although many would argue what the hell is lager if it doesn’t have bubbles?!)   The debate reminds me of the ‘What’s an IPA anymore’ discussion that many of us bloggers commented on a few months back.

    So, my two cents.

    CAMRA support real ale. Check. They (to the best of my knowledge) have no vendetta against lager or any other drink. However, some die hard CAMRA supporters probably do (and they are entitled to their opinions). So far, for CAMRA to rule out serving a lager because it uses CO2, sounds on the face of it, fair enough.

    But perhaps CAMRA are being restrictive to the beer industry because they are the nearest to a ‘beer’ body? Not necessarily, as their focus is on real ale, but when no ones else focusses on anything else, they are bound to become tied up in a wider beer debate? Are they in a position to complement their traditional views with a forward thinking approach to beer that doesn’t only promote beers of secondary fermentation and those that do utilise CO2? As many other people have pointed out, who is there to simply protect the interests of quality beer?

    Beer pump clips at the Worth Valley beer festival

    Beer pump clips at the Worth Valley beer festival

    And where does this leave the humble beer festival. Should CAMRA organised events be dedicated to ‘real ale’, or should they be more inclusive of beer that is brewed differently? Many will say no, but there isn’t really anyone else organising something more eclectic I say this with the caveat that I know plenty of CAMRA festivals include lager, craft brew and much more, and that there are many smaller independent beer events such as the recent Flying dog beer tasting in Leeds.

    People like different things, that’s life. There is nothing wrong with ‘real ale’ festivals and I thoroughly enjoy them, having this year been to Slataire, Norwich and Keighley Worth Valley festival at Oxenhope.

    But personally, I’d like to see a ‘Beer, Ale, whatever festival’, the emphasis being on quality, responsible drinking and socialising. Forget arguments over production, linear divisions, digs at beer styles and all that jazz. I want to see festivals that provide an outlet for beer brewers,; a get together for beer lovers; and a genuine effort to make sure beer has a good name.

    Lager, beer, ale, stout, porter, IPA, pale ale: all allowed.

    Cask, keg, bottled, straight out of a fermenting tank: allowed.

    Tankard, pint glass, 1/3 pint, 1/2 pint, wine glass: allowed.

    Me, I like beer, and as I repeat from my comment ealrier this week, as Adrian Tierney Jones puts it, “Beer, ale, whatever”

    (And apologies if I’ve taken your phrase out of context Adrian!)

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5 Responses to “Lager, lager, lager”

  1. Yep! Take a trip to Franken, and you’ll get lager beers served by gravity from a cask. Take a trip to Dusseldorf and pop into an altbier brewery, and you’ll get the same. I can even order a 15 litre cask of Uerige from my local drink market. “But that’s an ale”, some people cry. Well, it’s top fermented, but then it’s lagered. So it’s an Obergaerige Lagerbier. Huh?

    I think the common view of lager in the UK and Ireland is of kegged fizzy yellow stuff. It’s not though. It’s simply been fermented with a yeast that likes it cooler, lazes about at the bottom, and benefits from being cold conditioned (lagered) to make it crisp and clean. The Dusseldorf altbier breweries do it, hell, my local brewery Pinkus Muller does it for months with their top-fermented Alt. That’s the only difference. It could be the same basic ingredients. Dispense is an entirely different question.

    Personally I couldn’t give a crap about the dispense or fermentation type as long as it tastes good. Some are better on cask, some are better from a keg under pressure, and some I prefer in a bottle.

    Prost! :D   

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  2. Mark from Pencil and Spoon and I were chatting about this at the weekend. I am on the whole not a massive fan potholing beers into categories like ‘real ale’,lager or kegged. Good beer is good beer, end of story, no matter how it is dispensed or how it is made.

    The sooner beer festivals start springing up that serve good beer regardless of style or method of dispention the better.  

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  3. Top stuff. Good beer is good beer. I’d love to go to the festival you are talking about.  

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  4. Like everyone says good beer is good beer, a few the festivals i’ve been to have sold some form of carling/stella/becks so if they are happy to sell that why not sell kegged beer? it just doesnt make sense!  

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  5. The Hilden Brewery holds a festival every August which is exactly this: lots of lovely beer from near and far, both keg and cask — whichever the brewer thinks will show each particular beer off best. It’s a great day out.  

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